DERSHOWITZ: I’ve had a principle for 60 years, and that is if there is a dispute and one side wants the truth to come out and on the other side says, “No, we don’t want the truth to come out,” always believe the person who wants the truth to come out. That’s the person who’s telling the truth. And so the Trump people want the affidavit to be released. The Justice Department doesn’t. Now, I’m not suggesting releasing the entire affidavit. They can redact the names of you witnesses. You can redact the names of agents. You can redact sources and methods. But let’s know what they were looking for.
BUCK: Let’s know indeed. The hearing is tomorrow on the affidavit of the Trump Mar-a-Lago raid. That was Alan Dershowitz. Many of you probably recognize the voice, a professor at Harvard Law School who, I’ve gotta say, he’s a lib, but on issues of constitutional legal protection is willing to say things that upset his side. So whenever someone’s willing to take the principled position that upsets their political constituents, you know you’ve got something worth hearing.
By the way, we’re gonna speak to Donald Trump Jr., Don Jr. here in just a few minutes about this raid on Mar-a-Lago, what it means to the Trump family. Because, remember, they’re going after all the Trumps. They are going after them on trumped up — pardon the expression — you know, nonsense tax issues. They’re going after them on everything and anything. We’ll talk to Don Jr. about that. We may actually have Alan Dershowitz coming up later this week. So likely to be talking to him about this as well. But, Clay, I remember during Russia collusion, remember, they fought so hard, they didn’t want people — “Oh, we can’t release the FISA warrant.” Remember, the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, used for counterespionage and counterterrorism purposes, primarily to engage in the surveillance, the high-tech surveillance of communication. They didn’t want to release it because it was so sensitive and so secret. The more we found out about the Russia collusion documents, the worse it looked for the deep state, the Democrats, and the anti-Trump narrative. I have a feeling the same thing, even redacted, would be apparent if this affidavit gets released.
CLAY: I think you’re right. And don’t forget how this narrative has gone. The blue checks all said, “Oh, look. Merrick Garland came out,” he came out almost a week ago Thursday, and said we want the warrant to be released. That look at that Donald Trump’s decision. And immediately everybody said, oh, look at Merrick Garland. He’s called Trump’s bluff. And then Trump said “Okay, you can release the warrants.” And the warrants came out, and they didn’t actually look that bad for Donald Trump. And the Department of Justice is constantly spinning, they’re constantly releasing more information.
And then Trump took the next step and said, “Hey, and I’d also like for the affidavits that were used to justify the granting of the search warrant to be public as well.” And the Department of Justice, well, they ran backwards in a hurry and filed a big brief about why they couldn’t have the affidavit go public. And I think if the affidavit does go public — and again there’s the hearing tomorrow and I hope we can talk to Alan Dershowitz later this week about it — if the hearing does go public and we’re able to see that discussion and also maybe later see the affidavit, I think this story could disappear relatively quickly, Buck.
And what, I mean, by that is, think about how quickly all the pivots are occurring in the country surrounding Trump. Wasn’t it only, like, six weeks ago that Trump had supposedly grabbed the steering wheel?
BUCK: He’s like Darth Vader. He can choke out a Secret Service guy just by pointing his fingers at him.
CLAY: Everybody was obsessed . I can’t even remember the girl who testified’s name now. Was it Abbey something? Abbey Hutchinson? I don’t even remember. But she testified, and everybody was, like, this is a changing moment in American history. This is some of the bravest testimony we’ve ever seen.
First of all, it was hearsay. It wasn’t supported by on-the-record evidence. But, Buck, it’s gone. It’s totally gone. And they pivoted so quickly in the media from the January 6 hearings prove that Donald Trump is gonna be charged with a crime and has to be held accountable for all of his actions to immediately saying, “Oh, now they’re gonna get Trump over confidential documents at Mar-a-Lago.” And they don’t even talk about January 6th now. And we just saw Liz Cheney go up in smoke in Wyoming. But it’s important to note how quickly the narrative shifts based on what they think they can get Trump for, how everybody talks.
BUCK: Meanwhile, in lib land — MSNBC, CNN — this guy who runs the Council on Foreign Relations, Richard Haass — where I actually was an intern a long time ago, believe it or not. So I remembered, he was the president then. He’s still the president of the council foreign relations. His job is to give voice to the, you know, center left foreign policy consensus, you know, for folks —
CLAY: How in the world did you end up with an internship there? How old were you?
BUCK: It was a fancy place. Council on Foreign Relations. I was 21.
CLAY: Oh, okay. You were closer to — I was thinking you’re, like, 16 or something.
BUCK: No. No. I was college age. Anyway, here he is. I learned all the secrets there, by the way. The Bilderbergs, the Illuminati, I learned it all.
CLAY: You know it all now?
BUCK: I know it all now. Here is Richard Haass saying that this is the most dangerous time in our history since the Civil War.
HAASS: There’s gotta be an acceptance of the rules. And for the first time in, you know, more than a century and a half we have an opposition now that no longer does that. And this is a qualitatively different stress for the United States, it’s a qualitatively different challenge. And I think over the next couple of years it’s gonna play out ’cause you’re gonna see people elected this time around who fit the description we’ve been talking about, who don’t accept the basics. And the question then is, how does the political process over the next two years play out, including selections of electorates and so forth after the 2024 elections? I don’t think it’s an exaggeration to say this is potentially as dangerous a moment for this country as we’ve seen at any time since the middle of the nineteenth century and the run-up to the Civil War.
BUCK: The most dangerous moment since the Civil War, Clay.
CLAY: Stop. I’m a Civil War nerd. I went to Civil War sleep-away camp. I hate to have to brag about this before I give you my opinion. I gotta think World War II was more dangerous. Just gonna toss it out there, Buck. I kind of think when we were attacked by Japan and we were fighting a war in the Pacific and in Europe and there were hell-bent Nazis and Japanese —
BUCK: U-boats off the coast of Long Island and Japanese subs off the coast of California.
CLAY: — more dangerous than today. Just tossing it out there.